[5/15/15, 11:40:02 AM] Matt Liston: Does eth intend to release financial statements, investor relations reports, etc.?
[5/15/15, 11:44:04 AM] Kelley Becker: Well from a foundation perspective it will be necessary minus investors as we have none
[5/15/15, 11:44:22 AM] Kelley Becker: Eth dev, depends on its future structure. Too early to tell
[5/15/15, 11:46:28 AM] Matt Liston: How is Eth dev funded?
[5/15/15, 11:46:37 AM] Matt Liston: / or going to fund in the future
[5/15/15, 11:46:39 AM] Jeffrey Wilcke: with dodgecoin
[5/15/15, 11:46:56 AM] Matt Liston: from who?
[5/15/15, 11:47:16 AM] Jeffrey Wilcke: texture
[5/15/15, 11:47:22 AM] Texture [ethereum]: I think owen wilson was the creator of dodgeball actually
[5/15/15, 11:47:37 AM] Texture [ethereum]: which was the predecessor of dodge coin
[5/15/15, 11:47:43 AM] Matt Liston: lol
[5/15/15, 11:48:07 AM] Texture [ethereum]: but I feel bad now because I didn’t realize that this misunderstanding had occurred and I’m going to have to be honest
[5/15/15, 11:48:24 AM] Texture [ethereum]: I don’t have any dodge coin to pay your automobills :(
[5/15/15, 11:48:47 AM] Matt Liston: So there is no dogecoin funding?
[5/15/15, 11:49:01 AM] Texture [ethereum]: hope not
[5/15/15, 11:49:19 AM] Jeffrey Wilcke: dogecoin? No
[5/15/15, 11:49:38 AM] Matt Liston: How many months does ethdev have at current burn?
[5/15/15, 11:50:23 AM] Jeffrey Wilcke: approx end of the year if ether is worth nothing
[5/15/15, 11:50:35 AM] Jeffrey Wilcke: bit hard to give an exact date
[5/15/15, 11:50:48 AM] Kelley Becker: Specifics being worked out with the cfo currently. Nothing to nail yet
[5/15/15, 11:50:52 AM] Jeffrey Wilcke: bit do the math and check the amount of btc left vs monthly burn in the past month s
[5/15/15, 11:50:56 AM] Jeffrey Wilcke: exactly
[5/15/15, 11:50:59 AM] Matt Liston: 7 months
[5/15/15, 11:51:01 AM] Matt Liston: optimistically
[5/15/15, 11:51:17 AM] Texture [ethereum]: but how long can we continue to pay for my altcoin habit
[5/15/15, 11:51:22 AM] Texture [ethereum]: based on your numbers I’d say the end of the week
[5/15/15, 11:51:33 AM] Matt Liston: Ethdev needs years+
[5/15/15, 11:51:35 AM] Texture [ethereum]: this is really distressing
[5/15/15, 11:52:18 AM] Matt Liston: lol again :)
[5/15/15, 11:52:36 AM] Kelley Becker: And then the foundation takes over in terms of protecting and advocating. Eth dev either dissolve, spin off, or revive somehow else. It's a part of the strategic visioning that will occur this summer
[5/15/15, 11:53:05 AM] Matt Liston: What does the foundation do?
[5/15/15, 11:53:14 AM] Kelley Becker: It holds the money
[5/15/15, 11:53:29 AM] Matt Liston: How much?
[5/15/15, 11:53:29 AM] Kelley Becker: Is a non profit
[5/15/15, 11:53:38 AM] Kelley Becker: That I am not privy to
[5/15/15, 11:53:47 AM] Matt Liston: So in theory
[5/15/15, 11:53:51 AM] Matt Liston: if ethdev is needed
[5/15/15, 11:54:00 AM] Matt Liston: and the foundation is protecting and advocating
[5/15/15, 11:54:08 AM] Matt Liston: we have no idea how long the foundation
[5/15/15, 11:54:15 AM] Matt Liston: could fund ethdev, at current burn?
[5/15/15, 11:54:47 AM] Kelley Becker: The foundation could live infinitely in theory like the Hewlett fund or any large charitable foundation.
[5/15/15, 11:55:02 AM] Matt Liston: But to what utility?
[5/15/15, 11:55:08 AM] Kelley Becker: Taking on charitable contributions and managing the ether assets
[5/15/15, 11:55:15 AM] Kelley Becker: Wide spread adoption
[5/15/15, 11:55:27 AM] Kelley Becker: Diplomacy
[5/15/15, 11:55:30 AM] Matt Liston: The product is not ready for wide spread adoption
[5/15/15, 11:55:36 AM] Matt Liston: it needs years more of development
[5/15/15, 11:55:44 AM] Kelley Becker: Foundation work is a long game
[5/15/15, 11:55:58 AM] Kelley Becker: And that's what they would work to ensure
[5/15/15, 11:56:17 AM] Matt Liston: the long game would be to find funding for ethereum to continue development
[5/15/15, 11:56:26 AM] Matt Liston: it's there, but no one is going for it
[5/15/15, 11:56:27 AM] Kelley Becker: Yes indeed
[5/15/15, 11:56:36 AM] Kelley Becker: It's too early
[5/15/15, 11:56:42 AM] Matt Liston: It's nearly too late
[5/15/15, 11:56:45 AM] Kelley Becker: Steps are being built
[5/15/15, 11:56:48 AM] Matt Liston: We'll run out of funding
[5/15/15, 11:57:02 AM] Kelley Becker: That's not currently your problem
[5/15/15, 11:57:09 AM] Matt Liston: It's everyone's problem
[5/15/15, 11:57:16 AM] Matt Liston: if they no longer have jobs in a matter of months
[5/15/15, 11:57:18 AM] Matt Liston: and additionally
[5/15/15, 11:57:23 AM] Matt Liston: it's the ethereum investors problem
[5/15/15, 11:57:28 AM] Alex Van de Sande: Matt, there are many people handling these issues, there’s a senior team looking into that
[5/15/15, 11:57:32 AM] Matt Liston: if proper steps aren't being made to ensure long term development
[5/15/15, 11:57:37 AM] Kelley Becker: But you can't think in strictly for profit vc terms it's inappropriate for the platform
[5/15/15, 11:57:56 AM] Alex Van de Sande: Ethereum has no investors, it has crowd sale buyers, you clearly didn’t read your employees handbook ;-)
[5/15/15, 11:58:16 AM] Matt Liston: Ethereum has plenty of investors
[5/15/15, 11:58:35 AM] Kelley Becker: Donors
[5/15/15, 11:58:39 AM] Kelley Becker: Not investors
[5/15/15, 11:58:51 AM] Matt Liston: Anyone who owns any ether is effectively an investor
[5/15/15, 11:58:56 AM] Matt Liston: Externally, whatever
[5/15/15, 11:59:00 AM] Matt Liston: but functionally
[5/15/15, 11:59:07 AM] Matt Liston: that is where motives lie and are aligned
[5/15/15, 11:59:43 AM] Kelley Becker: It's like saying holding us dollars makes one a us investor
[5/15/15, 12:00:01 PM] Matt Liston: In a similar, but less potent way, it does
[5/15/15, 12:00:21 PM] Kelley Becker: We ain't buying bonds here
[5/15/15, 12:00:33 PM] Matt Liston: Why not?
[5/15/15, 12:01:39 PM] Matt Liston: http://www.investopedia.com/terms/b/bond.asp
[5/15/15, 12:01:58 PM] Matt Liston: Maybe we should be selling them
[5/15/15, 12:02:47 PM] Alex Van de Sande: Those are very distinct legal definitions, that is very important. Although our interests are game theoretically aligned, ether holders are not investors and you should refrain from using that term in any public forum. We have very different legal obligations..
[5/15/15, 12:03:07 PM] Matt Liston: Whatever it's called, my point is the same.
[5/15/15, 12:03:29 PM] Alex Van de Sande: What is the point of this conversation anyway? Where are you getting at?
[5/15/15, 12:04:01 PM] Matt Liston: Ethdev needs funding, Ether holders and contributors need clarity
[5/15/15, 12:04:08 PM] Kelley Becker: The take home is this is not a vc funded situation. Future iterations or spin offs, maybe. Foundation will be the steward and will work in accordance with charitable guidelines. We are hiring the foundation ed and searching for Board candidates, as evidenced by various ads in the public. It's in process. Please read up on how foundations operate for more information.
[5/15/15, 12:06:03 PM] Matt Liston: Regardless of what the foundation is or isn't doing - ethdev needs funding.
[5/15/15, 12:06:12 PM] Matt Liston: and it should be finding ways to fund.
[5/15/15, 12:06:38 PM] Alex Van de Sande: What makes you believe it’s not actively doing that?
[5/15/15, 12:07:23 PM] Matt Liston: The necessary steps aren't being taken to do that.
[5/15/15, 12:07:32 PM] Matt Liston: Eth looks like a shipwreck internally and externally.
[5/15/15, 12:07:49 PM] Matt Liston: The first step toward getting any sort of funding is fixing that.
[5/15/15, 12:09:02 PM] Matt Liston: It's a red flag for any sort of investor.
[5/15/15, 12:09:13 PM] Alex Van de Sande: You’re not the first one to be worried about funding. When the network goes live the foundation will be holding a few million ethers, which if you have any faith in the project, should be worth at least a few dimes. There are other means, grants and avenues that are being looked into.
[5/15/15, 12:09:36 PM] Alex Van de Sande: I can’t list them all or give further detail because that is not my job to do so.
[5/15/15, 12:11:38 PM] Matt Liston: We're effectively walking into a brain drain or acquihire and we're not upholding the best interests of the project and value of eth network
[5/15/15, 12:11:53 PM] Matt Liston: even the few million in the foundation
[5/15/15, 12:11:59 PM] Matt Liston: is not enough to fund ethdev much further
[5/15/15, 12:12:38 PM] Matt Liston: (even with optimistic appreciation)
[5/15/15, 12:13:16 PM] Alex Van de Sande: I’m sorry, we haven’t been introduced: what is it that you do around here—are you the new CFO?
[5/15/15, 12:16:06 PM] Matt Liston: there was an old CFO?
[5/15/15, 12:16:08 PM] Texture [ethereum]: no
[5/15/15, 12:17:04 PM] Matt Liston: I run axiomatic systems.
[5/15/15, 12:17:04 PM] Kelley Becker: If you want traditional startup this isn't it. This is not vc land. You have to expand your thinking.
[5/15/15, 12:17:28 PM] Matt Liston: why is this not vc land?
[5/15/15, 12:17:58 PM] Kelley Becker: Because it isn't. fuckers  d
[5/15/15, 12:18:12 PM] Kelley Becker: Was not the intention for this first life.
[5/15/15, 12:18:47 PM] Kelley Becker: And it won't change. You are out of your depth.
[5/15/15, 12:19:03 PM] Matt Liston: I don't know what that means.
[5/15/15, 12:19:08 PM] Matt Liston: It's vague.
[5/15/15, 12:19:15 PM] Kelley Becker: Look at endowment fundraising for clues of how to help
[5/15/15, 12:19:58 PM] Kelley Becker: Then red hat models for spin offs
[5/15/15, 12:20:46 PM] Stephan Tual [ethereum]: Throughout the life of Ethereum, including in the beginning (ESPECIALLY at the beginning), there were multiple conversations around the future of the organization, what would be appropriate, not appropriate, ethical or in line with the ‘spirit’ of Ethereum. The current model is what spun from a unanimous decision with everyone involved back in June.
[5/15/15, 12:21:15 PM] taylor.gerring: lol, soon gonna have to qualify that as June 2014
[5/15/15, 12:21:20 PM] Matt Liston: June was a long time ago
[5/15/15, 12:21:29 PM] Stephan Tual [ethereum]: Taylor i didn’t dare say it :)
[5/15/15, 12:21:37 PM] Matt Liston: The financial situation changed drastically
[5/15/15, 12:21:54 PM] William Mougayar: Matt- If I may interject, it's better to defer these types of discussions until after the Ethereum is launched. these issues you raised are the responsibility of the senior team, and currently they are 100% focused on the start of the genesis. Once it is out, that changes the whole dynamic of the future of Ethereum, so there's no point speculating or discussing it at this point, especially not in this space.
[5/15/15, 12:22:35 PM] taylor.gerring: Matt, yes the situation has changed... but we can't go and undo decisions made a year+ ago. What would you like to see done differently?
[5/15/15, 12:22:56 PM] Matt Liston: We need to be transparent about the financial situation
[5/15/15, 12:23:04 PM] Matt Liston: what is needed strategically to get eth fulfilled
[5/15/15, 12:23:11 PM] Matt Liston: and we need a cohesive effort to fund
[5/15/15, 12:23:14 PM] Matt Liston: from everyone involved
[5/15/15, 12:23:18 PM] taylor.gerring: Those are all very vague things
[5/15/15, 12:23:19 PM] Matt Liston: not from a senior cabal
[5/15/15, 12:23:29 PM] Matt Liston: ok
[5/15/15, 12:23:34 PM] Matt Liston: it's simple
[5/15/15, 12:23:47 PM] Matt Liston: Hi Community, Eth has x time to pay it's current staff
[5/15/15, 12:23:53 PM] Matt Liston: this is our burn rate in the past
[5/15/15, 12:23:55 PM] Matt Liston: proposed in the future
[5/15/15, 12:24:05 PM] Matt Liston: this is where we believe the project may be self funding
[5/15/15, 12:24:10 PM] Matt Liston: this is how much we need to get there
[5/15/15, 12:24:18 PM] Matt Liston: this is how we can seek that
[5/15/15, 12:24:37 PM] taylor.gerring: And those are all things being considered and figured out
[5/15/15, 12:24:47 PM] taylor.gerring: Maybe not in these Skype channels, but it's being done
[5/15/15, 12:25:32 PM] taylor.gerring: We have legal obligations to maintain transparency at the Foundation level. EthDev helps fulfil the operational role of creating the platform that Eth Foundation advocates for
[5/15/15, 12:26:47 PM] taylor.gerring: Personally, I share your concerns about burn rate... but I don't know that it's good public fodder
[5/15/15, 12:27:58 PM] Matt Liston: It would help convince eth holders to loan ethdev more eth
[5/15/15, 12:28:16 PM] Matt Liston: or justify a form of preferred stock / bond / smart contract funding the development
[5/15/15, 12:28:19 PM] Matt Liston: and paying dividends
[5/15/15, 12:28:30 PM] taylor.gerring: If that was a current goal than you'd be right
[5/15/15, 12:28:43 PM] taylor.gerring: But launching the genesis is priority atm
[5/15/15, 12:29:18 PM] taylor.gerring: Additionally, the foundation is essentially a non-profit, so I wouldn't expect issuance of any securities/stocks/whatever
[5/15/15, 12:29:34 PM] Matt Liston: Then ethdev needs to fundraise for itself apparently
[5/15/15, 12:29:43 PM] Matt Liston: and it needs to do it asap because it's going to die shortly
[5/15/15, 12:30:11 PM] Matt Liston: It also holds most of the network value
[5/15/15, 12:30:25 PM] Matt Liston: given that it developed the network and is the most capable force to continue development
[5/15/15, 12:32:23 PM] taylor.gerring: What you refer to as "EthDev" is really a collection of discrete organizations in differing legal jurisdications
[5/15/15, 12:32:35 PM] taylor.gerring: Bound by legal agreements
[5/15/15, 12:32:48 PM] Matt Liston: To who/what?
[5/15/15, 12:34:03 PM] taylor.gerring: I don't have the specifics of the agreements in front of me...
[5/15/15, 2:08:33 PM] Stephan Tual [ethereum]: who’s managing the rasperry pi distribution program?
[5/15/15, 2:14:05 PM] Kelley Becker: Moi.
[5/15/15, 2:14:41 PM] Kelley Becker: We can talk Monday
[5/15/15, 2:15:13 PM] Kelley Becker: Family time :)
[5/15/15, 3:14:48 PM] Stephan Tual [ethereum]: sure, no problem, let’s chat Monday. Nothing that can’t wait then anyway :) (Y)
[5/17/15, 5:40:27 AM] stephan.tual: Hey people of this channel, if you think your colleagues could benefit form participating in the conversation around communications, please add them here - Ideally we’d want to bring down every single chinese wall and insure a free flow of information.
[5/17/15, 5:40:30 AM] stephan.tual: (sun)
[5/17/15, 7:06:45 AM] Ian John Meikle: Image
[5/17/15, 7:07:07 AM] Ian John Meikle: Let's do it.
[5/17/15, 7:07:55 AM] Konstantin: war?
[5/17/15, 7:08:04 AM] Konstantin: huh? have i missed something?
[5/17/15, 7:08:29 AM] Ian John Meikle: You miss everything mate ;)
[5/17/15, 7:08:37 AM] Konstantin: ?
[5/17/15, 7:11:11 AM] alexandrevandesande: Not getting either
[5/17/15, 7:20:17 AM] Aeron Buchanan: I want that war be over. That's an inevitable consequence of ethereum going live, right?
[5/17/15, 7:21:26 AM] Konstantin: hopefully that will ultimately put an end to a lot of wars :)
[5/17/15, 8:53:25 AM] Stephan Tual [ethereum]: Stephan Tual [ethereum] added alessnam to this conversation
[5/17/15, 8:54:28 AM] Stephan Tual [ethereum]: Alessandro is doing a lot of our a/v work here in London. He’s currently working on editing the meetup video from last week, which was a very strong event, a lot of thing came together that night.
[5/17/15, 8:55:38 AM] Stephan Tual [ethereum]: @channel we’re working on a renewed plans for coms (3-6 months ahead) - once its’ ready for public consumption we’ll publish it here, and look forward to feedback.
[5/17/15, 8:56:23 AM] Matt Liston: do we need to circumvent the great firewall of china?
[5/17/15, 8:56:29 AM] Matt Liston: I have an idea if so :D
[5/17/15, 8:56:48 AM] Stephan Tual [ethereum]: We also need your help: we need more INTERNAL communications across the org - like Vinay described it , we’re still a bit like submarines captains . Let me get you a good example, one that’s very relevant today:
[5/17/15, 8:57:06 AM] Stephan Tual [ethereum]: in the last 72h I have been working on how to make mining work, accross GPUs.
[5/17/15, 8:57:52 AM] Stephan Tual [ethereum]: during that time I spend 3 sleepless night insuring it was a reproducible set up. I was interacting with CJ, and a few enthusiast from our community (the big miners you’re seeing on netstats)
[5/17/15, 8:58:07 AM] Stephan Tual [ethereum]: Last night i write a tutorial on how to do what i did, thinking it would be useful.
[5/17/15, 8:58:52 AM] Stephan Tual [ethereum]: this morning I’m told there are a few things to change, because i had misconstrued some of our strategy regarding the interactions between clients and the importance of having a majority of geth clients on the net
[5/17/15, 8:59:05 AM] alessnam: Stephan Tula hope you are good, I am in this group by mistake could you guys take me out
[5/17/15, 8:59:07 AM] alessnam: Best
[5/17/15, 8:59:09 AM] alessnam: AA
[5/17/15, 8:59:22 AM] Stephan Tual [ethereum]: Stephan Tual [ethereum] has ejected alessnam from this conversation
[5/17/15, 8:59:25 AM] Stephan Tual [ethereum]: wrong allessandro
[5/17/15, 8:59:36 AM] Stephan Tual [ethereum]: another thing we need to sort out: who works were and in what capacity. Org charts.
[5/17/15, 8:59:51 AM] Stephan Tual [ethereum]: Now going back to the tutorial, this is no big deal, i’m going to update it during the next day or so.
[5/17/15, 9:00:06 AM] Stephan Tual [ethereum]: But it shows that if we were to talk more and ask more questions we’d have to rewrite less.
[5/17/15, 9:00:19 AM] Stephan Tual [ethereum]: so yes, please, invite everyone you know in this chan, especially on the development side
[5/17/15, 9:00:55 AM] Stephan Tual [ethereum]: and let’s get the convo going both ways - this channel needs to tell us what the strategy is on the development/long term view side as much as it does on the coms/marketing side.
[5/17/15, 9:01:05 AM] Stephan Tual [ethereum]: Stephan Tual [ethereum] gets off his soap box, drops mike
[5/17/15, 9:01:08 AM] Matt Liston: so many (y) @stephan
[5/17/15, 9:02:31 AM] Stephan Tual [ethereum]: Stephan Tual [ethereum] has ejected authinc from this conversation
[5/17/15, 9:04:39 AM] Stephan Tual [ethereum]: Stephan Tual [ethereum] added Alessandro Panto to this conversation
[5/17/15, 9:14:09 AM] Kelley Becker: So this becomes the watercooler as well?
[5/17/15, 9:14:23 AM] Matt Liston: explain?
[5/17/15, 9:22:11 AM] Kelley Becker: We have no central meeting spot
[5/17/15, 9:22:51 AM] martin becze: so lets meet up at the watercooler :P
[5/17/15, 9:23:33 AM] martin becze: anyways org charts would be really cool Stephan
[5/17/15, 9:24:00 AM] Kelley Becker: I've been working on one
[5/17/15, 9:24:21 AM] martin becze: are you familar with the concept of working groups and the spokes council?
[5/17/15, 9:24:32 AM] Kelley Becker: Just other items ended up needing to take priority
[5/17/15, 9:26:21 AM] Matt Liston: What is the org chart for?
[5/17/15, 9:27:01 AM] Kelley Becker: To note all of the personnel in play
[5/17/15, 9:27:11 AM] martin becze: and i think it help orginize working groups/ silos
[5/17/15, 9:27:19 AM] Kelley Becker: Where the are, what they're do, who they report to
[5/17/15, 9:27:43 AM] Stephan Tual [ethereum]: martin , what’s the “ working groups and the spokes council?” sounds interesting.
[5/17/15, 9:28:08 AM] Matt Liston: +1
[5/17/15, 9:28:29 AM] Matt Liston: also noteworthy - steam's org charts and org philosophy
[5/17/15, 9:28:35 AM] Matt Liston: steam / valve
[5/17/15, 9:32:03 AM] martin becze: so working groups form around a certain subject. they are semi-Autonomous, but they need to meet up regular and desinate one person to report to the spokes council.  so for example there would be working groups for the JS api, one for CPP dev, ect. Most poeple would be apart of more than one working group as there will be overlaps in repsoniblities of working groups.
[5/17/15, 9:32:27 AM] Matt Liston: how transparent would working groups be?
[5/17/15, 9:32:48 AM] Matt Liston: ie. this semi-autonomous working group needs resources
[5/17/15, 9:32:55 AM] Matt Liston: and needs a way of getting a justifying resources
[5/17/15, 9:33:42 AM] martin becze: the spokes council would have to decide on that.
[5/17/15, 9:34:10 AM] martin becze: its called a spokes council  because it formed be one repersentive from each working group
[5/17/15, 9:34:19 AM] martin becze: ie they are spokes
[5/17/15, 9:34:34 AM] Matt Liston: gotcha
[5/17/15, 9:35:16 AM] martin becze: so is  the form of orginzation that the WTO protest and OWS in NYC used.
[5/17/15, 9:36:12 AM] martin becze: i was the spoke for the techOps working group. and to get funding for projects I would have to prestent what we where doing to the council
[5/17/15, 9:36:15 AM] Matt Liston: as in Occupy Wall Street and http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1999_Seattle_WTO_protests?
[5/17/15, 9:36:19 AM] martin becze: yep
[5/17/15, 9:36:26 AM] Matt Liston: nice
[5/17/15, 9:36:45 AM] Matt Liston: so something like this would work nicely with a funding mechanism I'm exploring
[5/17/15, 9:36:47 AM] Matt Liston: (I think)
[5/17/15, 9:36:49 AM] martin becze: so this is from a slightly differnet realm than bussiness but I think it relevant
[5/17/15, 9:37:34 AM] alexandrevandesande: Sounds very compatible to the way things are working right now, autonomous groups with central reporting
[5/17/15, 9:38:05 AM] Matt Liston: what is the central reporting process?
[5/17/15, 9:38:36 AM] Matt Liston: https://www.valvesoftware.com/company/Valve_Handbook_LowRes.pdf
[5/17/15, 9:38:40 AM] Matt Liston: btw, valve manual
[5/17/15, 9:38:44 AM] Matt Liston: is anyone is curious
[5/17/15, 9:38:45 AM] martin becze: nice
[5/17/15, 9:38:50 AM] Matt Liston: it's an alt org
[5/17/15, 9:39:06 AM] Matt Liston: not necessarily perfect model for here, but it shows a bit of what a large alt-org can look like
[5/17/15, 9:39:08 AM] martin becze: >what is the central reporting process?
that would be the spokes council
[5/17/15, 9:39:11 AM] Matt Liston: with a similar demographic
[5/17/15, 9:39:22 AM] Matt Liston: link to spokes council doc?
[5/17/15, 9:39:26 AM] Matt Liston: wiki or w/e
[5/17/15, 9:41:47 AM] Kelley Becker: I see us as cellular groups with a governing Council
[5/17/15, 9:41:48 AM] martin becze: hmm here is an old doc i have https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B-tRX4zr3JUIYzkxYTNhNjItZmQ1My00NzgyLTg3MWUtNTcyOTljMjQ2M2Zi/view
[5/17/15, 9:42:04 AM] Matt Liston: what is the governing council, what purpose does it serve?
[5/17/15, 9:42:16 AM] Matt Liston: thx @martin
[5/17/15, 9:42:40 AM] martin becze: @matt  but don't think there is a strict definition of spoke councils.. I think they should be modified for the orginizations needs
[5/17/15, 9:43:03 AM] Matt Liston: @martin any examples of the spoke councils being decentralized?
[5/17/15, 9:43:17 AM] Matt Liston: and perhaps not looking as much like a traditional BoD
[5/17/15, 9:43:25 AM] martin becze: BoD?
[5/17/15, 9:43:30 AM] Matt Liston: board of directors
[5/17/15, 9:45:16 AM] Kelley Becker: In all operational matters a council of some sort or management sees the entire overview and directs upper level strategy and tactics, and the various groups execute according to the org principles
[5/17/15, 9:45:28 AM] Kelley Becker: Only way to forward operations.
[5/17/15, 9:46:13 AM] Kelley Becker: Even if the groups have some autonomy and creative license
[5/17/15, 9:51:20 AM] Kelley Becker: Otherwise, it becomes chaos
[5/17/15, 9:51:28 AM] martin becze: @kelly yep agree :)  
@matt its hard to define decentralized in term of an orginazation. semantics get tricky here. since an org is a collection of ppl gather around some common cause of purpose. So there is centrializtion of effort. Simaliar to how the brain directs the body so should the spokes council.
[5/17/15, 9:51:44 AM] Kelley Becker: Even in situations where the group clearly know what they are doing, reporting back still occurs
[5/17/15, 9:52:00 AM] martin becze: right you need communication.
[5/17/15, 9:52:56 AM] martin becze: @matt "But what is useful about centralization is that it is at least possible to bring together at the center at least summaries of what is happening at mutually distant parts of the periphery."
[5/17/15, 9:53:03 AM] martin becze: - Gregory Bateson
[5/17/15, 9:53:18 AM] Kelley Becker: I once helped run an org that had a shadow Council. Only difference was the lower or more spread out groups had no idea they were being directed
[5/17/15, 9:53:43 AM] alexandrevandesande: That's sounds scary
[5/17/15, 10:00:00 AM] Stephan Tual [ethereum]: I have no preference on any model as long as we all talk more about what we all do, so we’re in sync :) Quick anecdote: when I was at Visa, I was leading an R&D group on Machine Learning that was experimenting with Hadoop for near real-time analytics of purchases (the idea would be to be able to recommend coupons at till by re-evaluating your lifestyle segment while you purchase, as opposed to provide generic offers at till or targeted coupons via mail).
[5/17/15, 10:00:29 AM] Stephan Tual [ethereum]: Well anyway we worked a year on that thing, and it was awesome, but one day we get invited by another group at Visa who want to show us something ‘amazing'.
[5/17/15, 10:00:44 AM] Kelley Becker: Nah when we revealed what we were doing eventually the overwhelming response was, "Oh thank God someone was in charge"
[5/17/15, 10:00:44 AM] Stephan Tual [ethereum]: and it turns out my team and theirs had been working on the same thing and we didn’t even know about each other.
[5/17/15, 10:01:05 AM] Kelley Becker: Followed by,  "can you set it up again?"
[5/17/15, 10:01:26 AM] Stephan Tual [ethereum]: so effectively we duplicated like a year of work, with senior devs to boot, total cost was pretty damn high.
[5/17/15, 10:01:31 AM] Stephan Tual [ethereum]: coms coms coms
[5/17/15, 10:01:48 AM] Stephan Tual [ethereum]: @kelley hehe ‘oh thank god i worked for the shadow council all along’ - too funny :)
[5/17/15, 10:01:49 AM] Kelley Becker: I do wonder how Google behaves
[5/17/15, 10:02:15 AM] Kelley Becker: My friends there never really explain their comms
[5/17/15, 10:03:15 AM] Stephan Tual [ethereum]: i heard it was really really really pyramidal at google UK. You have managers of managers of managers and some people do admin all day long to run micro teams of 8. Apparently that’s why it works well, or so i’m told.
[5/17/15, 10:03:59 AM] Kelley Becker: It's all shadow!
[5/17/15, 10:04:36 AM] Stephan Tual [ethereum]: :)
[5/17/15, 10:09:27 AM] Matt Liston: It's a bit different with a blockchain+token model
[5/17/15, 10:09:38 AM] Matt Liston: reporting and strategy is important as always
[5/17/15, 10:09:53 AM] Matt Liston: but in this case, the "centralized planner" may not be what we think
[5/17/15, 10:11:18 AM] Matt Liston: ie. yes a council is necessary and important, but what is the council right now?
[5/17/15, 10:11:45 AM] Matt Liston: is it what we think? what imperative does it optimize for? Who does it serve?
[5/17/15, 10:12:01 AM] Matt Liston: also @stephan please tell me more about this visa project
[5/17/15, 10:12:07 AM] Matt Liston: sounds very interesting
[5/17/15, 10:13:27 AM] Matt Liston: Matt Liston added Joey Krug to this conversation
[5/17/15, 10:13:46 AM] Matt Liston: Matt Liston added Roland  Kofler to this conversation
[5/17/15, 10:32:32 AM] Vinay Gupta: I think a "one post per person per day MAX" whole of micron log might rock.
[5/17/15, 10:33:08 AM] Vinay Gupta: Post current position and direction, and zero chat on that channel, maybe.
[5/17/15, 10:33:10 AM] martin becze: whats the micron log ?
[5/17/15, 10:33:44 AM] Vinay Gupta: Whole org microblog
[5/17/15, 10:34:06 AM] martin becze: what we have a microblog?
[5/17/15, 10:34:15 AM] Kelley Becker: and who are these guys? this is staff only
[5/17/15, 10:37:02 AM] Jeffrey Wilcke: It is indeed. Matt, do not randomly add people at your convenience.

Who ever has the power to remove those two people, please do so (or be helpful and leave your self :-))
[5/17/15, 10:40:06 AM] Matt Liston: What is the purpose of this channel?
[5/17/15, 10:40:49 AM] Matt Liston: Also, Jeffrey, what do you do?
[5/17/15, 10:40:52 AM] Kelley Becker: A question you should have asked before you added people.
[5/17/15, 10:40:54 AM] Kelley Becker: Jeffrey is our Boss
[5/17/15, 10:40:59 AM] martin becze: haahah
[5/17/15, 10:41:21 AM] Matt Liston: "A question you should have asked before you added people." asking now :)
[5/17/15, 10:41:35 AM] Matt Liston: "Jeffrey is our Boss" explain
[5/17/15, 10:41:37 AM] Jeffrey Wilcke: You might want to change your tone
[5/17/15, 10:42:00 AM] Matt Liston: I'm asking questions that need to be asked
[5/17/15, 10:42:05 AM] Matt Liston: any perceived tone is unintentional
[5/17/15, 10:43:52 AM] Matt Liston: Also - I do not have the ability to remove people.
[5/17/15, 10:45:40 AM] alexandrevandesande: http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethereum
See the first table on the page, under "developers". 😉
[5/17/15, 10:46:40 AM] Matt Liston: ok
[5/17/15, 10:46:43 AM] Matt Liston: but that says very little
[5/17/15, 10:46:44 AM] Matt Liston: https://github.com/obscuren
[5/17/15, 10:46:46 AM] Matt Liston: says a lot more
[5/17/15, 10:46:54 AM] Matt Liston: looks like Jeffrey is a very active contributor
[5/17/15, 10:47:15 AM] Matt Liston: (y)
[5/17/15, 10:47:16 AM] alexandrevandesande: The fact that are only three people named in that page should tell you enough.
[5/17/15, 10:47:29 AM] Kelley Becker: Senior Management, aka The Boss: Gavin, Jeff, Vitalik
[5/17/15, 10:47:33 AM] Matt Liston: What should that tell me?
[5/17/15, 10:47:40 AM] Kelley Becker: Beneath that is myself, Stephan, Frihtjof,
[5/17/15, 10:47:54 AM] alexandrevandesande: Since we brought this up, who are you, darkmatter137?
[5/17/15, 10:48:08 AM] Matt Liston: I mentioned yesterday, i run axiomatic systems.
[5/17/15, 10:48:09 AM] Kelley Becker: since you weren't aware that we had management, or structure, and asking impudent questions
[5/17/15, 10:48:31 AM] Kelley Becker: He is assisting Stephan on comms related issues
[5/17/15, 10:50:23 AM] Alex Van de Sande: Ah yes, you're the Matt Liston guy who was asking questions yesterday, sorry for not recognizing. Skype on the iPhone shows a different username. What are these axiomatic systems you're running?
[5/17/15, 10:50:24 AM] Matt Liston: Speaking of which
[5/17/15, 10:50:37 AM] Matt Liston: Oh - that's a long story :)
[5/17/15, 10:50:49 AM] Matt Liston: Right now, trying to start ones that fund ethereum development
[5/17/15, 10:51:01 AM] Matt Liston: before, when I thought this stuff was handled
[5/17/15, 10:51:04 AM] Matt Liston: it was going to be more fun
[5/17/15, 10:51:09 AM] Kelley Becker: did anyone ask you to?
[5/17/15, 10:51:15 AM] Matt Liston: Yes.
[5/17/15, 10:51:19 AM] Kelley Becker: who?
[5/17/15, 10:51:26 AM] Matt Liston: I can't tell you that.
[5/17/15, 10:51:32 AM] Kelley Becker: Sorry, you must.
[5/17/15, 10:51:38 AM] Matt Liston: If they want to tell you, they can.
[5/17/15, 10:52:19 AM] Matt Liston: Also speaking of comms related issue
[5/17/15, 10:52:33 AM] Matt Liston: This line of discussion is deeply related to that
[5/17/15, 10:53:29 AM] Kelley Becker: since we are operating in a room with a hidden and competing agenda, and since the only one who can make changes to this room is Stephan, I encourage those present to cease using this channel immediately.
[5/17/15, 10:53:50 AM] Matt Liston: There's no hidden or competing agenda.
[5/17/15, 10:53:59 AM] Matt Liston: Not from this end.
[5/17/15, 10:59:30 AM] Texture [ethereum]: I have a hidden agenda
[5/17/15, 10:59:36 AM] Matt Liston: :D
[5/17/15, 10:59:40 AM] Texture [ethereum]: I started with mtgox
[5/17/15, 10:59:45 AM] Texture [ethereum]: and it turned into this bitcoin site
[5/17/15, 10:59:52 AM] Texture [ethereum]: and i’m still trying to find some rares
[5/17/15, 11:00:14 AM] Matt Liston: rares>
[5/17/15, 11:00:15 AM] Matt Liston: like
[5/17/15, 11:00:21 AM] Texture [ethereum]: rare cards
[5/17/15, 11:00:21 AM] Matt Liston: magic the gathering cards?
[5/17/15, 11:00:35 AM] Texture [ethereum]: yes
[5/17/15, 11:00:37 AM] Matt Liston: nice
[5/17/15, 11:00:39 AM] Matt Liston: if you want
[5/17/15, 11:00:43 AM] Matt Liston: I have a lot of rare pokemons
[5/17/15, 11:00:46 AM] Matt Liston: i can show you
[5/17/15, 11:00:50 AM] Texture [ethereum]: nice
[5/17/15, 11:00:58 AM] Jeffrey Wilcke: Matt, I know you're associated with Stephan and the comms team. I know most of the people that work within this organisation and I know what they do. I'd strongly suggest that, in your next endeavour, you actually check and make sure who you work with and if that's too much trouble, you check at the very least the (senior) management team (aka your boss(es)).
[5/17/15, 11:01:33 AM] Jeffrey Wilcke: Texture, not helping
[5/17/15, 11:01:55 AM] Jeffrey Wilcke: Anyways, I'm off for now. Enjoy your Sunday.
[5/17/15, 11:01:58 AM] Matt Liston: You too
[5/17/15, 11:03:06 AM] Texture [ethereum]: Jeff: You’re still awesome anyway
[5/17/15, 11:03:23 AM] Matt Liston: those git commits...
[5/17/15, 11:03:25 AM] Matt Liston: <3
[5/17/15, 11:06:23 AM] Texture [ethereum]: I recorded this awesome video of him in berlin at devcon 0 that was never released, ask stephan or ian about it
[5/17/15, 11:06:48 AM] Matt Liston: lolk
[5/17/15, 11:08:14 AM] Texture [ethereum]: Or should I say, I recorded a video of him talking about ethereum and it was awesome.
[5/18/15, 11:45:27 AM] Stephan Tual [ethereum]: This channel is shutting down.
[5/18/15, 11:45:32 AM] Stephan Tual [ethereum]: Stephan Tual [ethereum] has ejected Aeron Buchanan from this conversation
[5/18/15, 11:45:43 AM] Stephan Tual [ethereum]: Stephan Tual [ethereum] has ejected Alessandro Panto from this conversation
[5/18/15, 11:45:44 AM] Stephan Tual [ethereum]: Stephan Tual [ethereum] has ejected nessence from this conversation
[5/18/15, 11:45:44 AM] Stephan Tual [ethereum]: Stephan Tual [ethereum] has ejected Alex Van de Sande from this conversation
[5/18/15, 11:45:45 AM] Stephan Tual [ethereum]: Stephan Tual [ethereum] has ejected chris92246 from this conversation
[5/18/15, 11:45:46 AM] Stephan Tual [ethereum]: Stephan Tual [ethereum] has ejected chr.jentzsch from this conversation
[5/18/15, 11:45:46 AM] Stephan Tual [ethereum]: Stephan Tual [ethereum] has ejected epointsystem from this conversation
[5/18/15, 11:45:47 AM] Stephan Tual [ethereum]: Stephan Tual [ethereum] has ejected frozeman.de from this conversation
[5/18/15, 11:45:47 AM] martin becze: byere
[5/18/15, 11:45:48 AM] Stephan Tual [ethereum]: Stephan Tual [ethereum] has ejected gavofyork from this conversation
[5/18/15, 11:45:49 AM] Stephan Tual [ethereum]: Stephan Tual [ethereum] has ejected George Hallam [Ethereum] from this conversation